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| Syd |
 Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 4:21 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 12929
Location: Norman, Oklahoma
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| Travis Bickle was based on Arthur Bremer, who shot George Wallace in 1972. Before that, Bremer was following Richard Nixon for a while. That switch in targets was reflected in Bickle's easy shift from one target to another. It's like, "I'm going to clean up society by killing this bozo. Oh, wait, I can't get to him, I'll clean up society by shooting this other bozo." |
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| Joe Vitus |
| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 4:41 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 14498
Location: Houston
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marantzo wrote: If being gay is not a choice but an innate condition like heterosexuality, how can you be proud to be gay? Can I be proud to be heterosexual? They should change the name from Gay Pride Day to Gay Happiness Day. It might sound redundant but you can be happy that you are gay, you can't be proud that you are gay if you had nothing to do with it.
Just caught up with this. Dan Savage would agree with you. Read his Skipping Towards Gomorrah, where he makes the same point. He also says that at one point gay pride was necessary because gays felt themselves to be abnormal and less worthy as people (that, in fact, that's what all pride movements are, from black pride through everything else: an attempt by people who feel they lack worth and have been marginalized to make themselves feel worthwhile and important). But now it's just an excuse for hawkers to sell ugly rainbow colored everything.
He's particularly irritated by the "we have to do this for gay youth," excuse used for everything from Ellen's attempt to revive a dying sitcom to the reason to have major gay pride parades—which gay youth doesn't seem to attend that often, anyway. He chides the L.A. parade for being hosted by Kathy Griffen, who's never made any statements on gay poltical issues, or gay issues at all. His point being, all this talk about pride and politics is really a santimonious excuse to throw a party. Why not just throw a party, and drop the pseudo-moralizing.
He also says gay people experience more harm, pain, and rejection at the hands of other gays than society at large.
I half agree with him and half don't. |
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:03 pm |
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Joe, my point wasn't the same as his. To me you can be proud of something you've done. Now if being gay was a choice then being pround that you made that choice makes sense, but seeing as all the evidence points to it not being a choice, you can't take pride in something that had nothing to do with what you did. It's different of course, than being proud that you have 'come out'. That's a choice that you have made. You can be happy that you are gay, but being proud that you are gay makes no sense. I feel the same about people who say such things as, 'I'm proud to be a Jew."
Unless you converted, what do you have to be proud of. You were born a Jew. It's a misuse of the word. |
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| Joe Vitus |
| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:07 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 14498
Location: Houston
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| He says that, too. |
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| Joe Vitus |
| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:09 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 14498
Location: Houston
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| By the way, I seem to remember your saying you didn't like happy birthdays on the forums. But in case I misunderstood you, or that was somebody else, Happy Belated Birthday. |
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You've got a great brain. You should keep it in your head.
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:28 pm |
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| Must have been someone else. thanks Joe and all the others. I do prefer presents though. Cash is best. |
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| chillywilly |
| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 9:36 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 8251
Location: Salt Lake City
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marantzo wrote: Must have been someone else. thanks Joe and all the others. I do prefer presents though. Cash is best.
So I take it you got the wad of Robert Borden's I mailed to you? |
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Chilly
"If you should die before me / Ask if you could bring a friend" |
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| chillywilly |
| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:33 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 8251
Location: Salt Lake City
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Just finished watching Monster House in it's entirety (previously just parts of it via the granddaughter watching it and I coming into the room). A very well made film and one that even adults can enjoy, complete with adult jokes that are not too "bad". The writers of the film obviously had fun with the story and taking the 12-yr olds perspective.
The voice cast was top notch, with Steve Buscemi, Jason Lee, Catherine O'Hara and Jon Heder (to name a few) lending their familiar vocal talents to the movie.
If I remember right, Syd talked up this film a lot when he first saw it. I now see what he was talking about. I'm sure the big screen would have fun to see this movie, but the small screen was just fine for me. |
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Chilly
"If you should die before me / Ask if you could bring a friend" |
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| jeremy |
| Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:32 am |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 6794
Location: Derby, England and Hamilton, New Zealand (yes they are about 12,000 miles apart)
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Monster House is probably the best cgi film of the year (I haven't seen Flushed Away yet).
All Pixar's films have the feel of films made by dad's doing there best, but for Cars it seems they were to busy playing Project Gotham on the X-Box to let junior have a go.
Ice Age II was a clunky if lucrative sequel; Dreamworks Over The Hedge was not terrible, but didn't really rise much above a host of other films similar in stlye, theme and tone; Disney's, The Wild was a so-so retread of Madagascar, which was only so-so to begin with. At least Sony's Open Season, contented itself with recycling the jokes from Madagascar rather than the whole film. As for Paramount's Barnyard, it was was so ill-conceived as to be...it was exercrable. |
Last edited by jeremy on Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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| tirebiter |
| Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:56 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: not far away
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| The kids are getting me Monster House for Christmas. I laughed so hard in the theatre that I nearly choked to death, so they know I like it. |
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:12 am |
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tirebiter wrote: The kids are getting me Monster House for Christmas. I laughed so hard in the theatre that I nearly choked to death, so they know I like it.
They may have another reason. Do you have a will? |
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| bart |
| Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:59 am |
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Joined: 05 Dec 2005
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Location: Lincoln NE
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Monster House seems to continue the trend towards digital movies that adults can enjoy as much as kids. It's a good trend, though I'm a bit wistful now that my own kids have grown out of them, and mainly attend films with their peers.
Marantz, I never understood the whole "I'm proud" thing applied to anything that only requires emerging from a womb somewhere. But I think "pride" in that context sometimes is just used to mean an affirmation of embracing whatever one happens to be. |
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| Befade |
| Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:12 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 3784
Location: AZ
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Why are ya'll talkin bout gay pride and such when I wrote all that movie stuff you could have responded to? 
Syd wrote: "Travis Bickle was based on Arthur Bremer, who shot George Wallace in 1972. Before that, Bremer was following Richard Nixon for a while. That switch in targets was reflected in Bickle's easy shift from one target to another. It's like, "I'm going to clean up society by killing this bozo. Oh, wait, I can't get to him, I'll clean up society by shooting this other bozo."
I hadn't heard that. The dvd featured an hour long doc about making the film and Paul Schrader said he based it on himself.........He'd just gotten divorced, his girlfriend had left him and he was living in his car or at friend's apartments. He said DeNiro and Scorcese both related to the loneliness (in NYC) of Bickle's character. |
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| ehle64 |
| Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:41 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 7149
Location: NYC; US&A
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Befade wrote: Why are ya'll talkin bout gay pride and such when I wrote all that movie stuff you could have responded to?
Sorry, bets, but I have to put in my $.02.
Where I think pride comes into play with Gay and Lesbian people has a lot to do with finally coming out. Going against everything that Society has placed against you and realizing that there is in fact nothing wrong with you as a person. Nothing anyone could ever say again to hurt you to the very core of your being. Proud of WHO YOU ARE and not afraid to admit it. Proud of living your life without pretense, or a closet, or a Crystal Church, or whatever else you feel the need to hide behind in order to deceive, not only Society, but one's self. If that isn't something to be proud of, I don't know what is. |
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It truly disappoints me when people do something for you via no prompt of your own and then use it as some kind of weapon against you at a later time and place. It is what it is. |
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| lshap |
| Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 1:03 pm |
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Site Admin
Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 4248
Location: Montreal
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Well said, Wade.
Pride in a vaccum is self-promotion. Pride as a response to bigotry is self-expression. |
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