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| lady wakasa |
 Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 1:49 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 5911
Location: Beyond the Blue Horizon
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| Another in a string of strange, obscure questions... Does anybody know if the region 3 version of Chihwaseon is out of print in DVD? |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 10:35 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 20618
Location: New York City
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A marathon movie weekend. Saw Rumor Has It..., Shopgirl, David Schwimmer in Duane Hopwood, Bette Davis in Of Human Bondage, and Vince Vaughn in A Cool, Dry Place.
My favorites of the five were the most obscure. Duane Hopwood is the story of an alcoholic pit boss in Atlantic City whose marriage is falling apart and who is losing visitation rights with his two daughters. Schwimmer is very convincing as a loser, and his soon-to-be-ex is very well limned by Janeane Garafolo. The story has the nerve to end inconclusively, and the Atlantic City milieu is defined very effectively.
Even better was the completely unknown-to-me A Cool, Dry Place, a 1998 semi-release which IMO is Vince Vaughn's career peak. He is absolutely great in a Kramer vs. Kramer clone about a natural-born father. Joey Lauren Adams (she of the weird voice mentioned a few posts back) and Monica Potter play the two women in Vaughn's life, but it's his chemistry with Bobby Moat, playing his five-year-old son, that really nails the picture. The plot is completely predictable (this is what probably caused the lack of release for a very charming and well-made film) but the details are marvelous. Among other things, Vaughn does his own very taking and original variation on air guitar. Anyone who thinks of VV as merely a goofy comic actor needs to see this performance.
Of Human Bondage was Bette Davis's career maker. She was much better in later performances, and the movie is dull otherwise. Glad I saw it for historical value, but it's not all that good.
Shopgirl is beautiful to look at and technically very well made but dramatically somewhat inert. Claire Danes is wonderful in the title role, but Steve Martin and Jason Schwartzman quickly get boring, and Schwartzman's role is dorky and uninterestingly eccentric.
The much-maligned Rumor Has It... was mediocre--nothing more but, surprisingly after all the bad stuff I'd heard, nothing less. The biggest surprises were how much I like Kevin Costner's performance, how great Richard Jenkins was, and why Mark Ruffalo took such a nothing role. Actually, Ruffalo's final confrontation was extremely well played and reasonably interesting, but up to then, he was stuck with plastic situations and bland dialogue. Shirley MacLaine managed to make an unpleasant character even unpleasanter than necessary.
Costner, however, was sexy as all get-out, and you could easily see how Jennifer Aniston could fall for him, especially when the alternative (Ruffalo) had such silly lines to speak. |
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| Joe Vitus |
| Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 11:09 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 14498
Location: Houston
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Billy,
Rumor Has It SPOILERS
I had more or less the same reaction as you, but what bothered me about this movie was the sheer pointlessness. Yes, the basic premise is dumb. Really dumb. But either you stick with your premise, and try to make something clever out of it, or you make a different movie. About half-an-hour in we find out that, yes, The Graduate was based on their life story, and after that the story just meanders near, and then away from, several other possible plot turns, without really embracing them. The movie would be better if the structure were reversed. Follow those other plotlines, but let whether the family was the inspiration or not be left unanswered (or at least save that answer for last).
And even with your great estimation of Costner's star power, can you really believe him desirable enough to lay three generations of women in one immediate family? Sadly, although there are jokes attached to it, the idea itself isn't treated as a joke. And Costner, with that narcissim of his that makes it hard for me to like him even though I know he can be good, takes it as his due. I'm not sure even Warren Beatty ever had the guts to do that (when he bedded the daughter in Shampoo, she surely knew he was hot, but it was explicit that she really did it to trash her mom and not because all the women in the family were a-gaga over George). |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 11:17 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 20618
Location: New York City
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RUMOR HAS IT Spoilers
Joe--About the story structure, you hit it right on the nose. I hadn't quite figured out what made the movie so...pointless...but as you said, it's that they shot their wad so soon that there was almost literally nowhere to go.
On the subject of Costner, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
"Can you really believe him desirable enough to lay three generations of women in one immediate family?"
Yup.
And actually, I don't think KC seemed narcissistic. I think he seemed to count himself pretty darned lucky. |
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| mo_flixx |
| Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 11:43 pm |
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Joined: 30 May 2004
Posts: 12533
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Joe Vitus wrote: Billy,
Rumor Has It SPOILERS
...
And even with your great estimation of Costner's star power, can you really believe him desirable enough to lay three generations of women in one immediate family? Sadly, although there are jokes attached to it, the idea itself isn't treated as a joke. And Costner, with that narcissim of his that makes it hard for me to like him even though I know he can be good, takes it as his due. I'm not sure even Warren Beatty ever had the guts to do that (when he bedded the daughter in Shampoo, she surely knew he was hot, but it was explicit that she really did it to trash her mom and not because all the women in the family were a-gaga over George).
But who else could have played the Costner role? Sean Connery is too old, Geo. Clooney is too young, and Donald Trump would have been a bust. |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 11:45 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 20618
Location: New York City
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| mo--Right on. And it's to Costner's credit that he doesn't try to play a part much younger than he is. He could get away with lying about his age, so to speak. Instead he proudly plays a 55-year-old and is a credit to his age group. |
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| Joe Vitus |
| Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 12:48 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 14498
Location: Houston
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You know who could have played it better? Jack Nicholson. Not only would it have been better for him than the lame comedies he usually does, but he would have been satiric. He would have played up how ridiculous it was, but that he wasn't exactly complaining.
There is at least one huge problem with Costner in this movie, setting aside the narcissism critique which I'll agree is a personal reaction on my part. He's far too much a typical leading man.
SPOILERS
But Benjamin in The Graduate is not typical. He's atypical. Radically so, which is why the movie resonated with people. He wasn't traditionally good looking and he didn't fit in, both of which Costnar obviously is/does. Now, if the movie played with the idea that The Graduate was only loosely based on real life, maybe okay. Dull, but okay. But the way the deceased mother is referenced, and the way Shirely MacLaine is got up, indicates the book barely altered a detail.
That's another problem. How could a college buddy not only get all those details right about people he never met, but how could filmmakers even further removed strike so close to home?
At any rate, there is no way on this earth Benjamin could grow up into the man Kevin Costnar is, with traditional Hollwood good looks, charm and magnetism, easy-going and carefree. Do any of these words fit the young man in The Graduate? Hardly. Costnar is the closest thing we have to a Gary Cooper. Benjamin was closer to Woody Allen. It's like saying Play It Again Sam is based on a real person, who thirty years later became Tom Selleck. |
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| Mr. Brownstone |
| Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 1:51 am |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2450
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I'll bet Jeff Bridges would've nailed Costner's part.
I haven't seen the flick, but if you need a devilishly handsome laconic 50-something who was kind of a dork as a kid but grew up into the type of guy who could lay three generations of women and still remain a likable rogue, Bridges is your dude. |
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| jeremy |
| Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 2:56 am |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 6794
Location: Derby, England and Hamilton, New Zealand (yes they are about 12,000 miles apart)
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| I felt in need of a shower after watching Shopgirl |
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I know the meaning of life, it doesn't help me a bit.
I know beauty and I know a good thing when I see it. |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 5:54 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: New York City
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Joe and Tim--Joe makes very good points about the character of Benjamin having nothing in common with Costner's character. But I can't see Nicholson in the role. Bridges, maybe.
However, I still prefer Kevin to Jeff. Beau has always been my favored Bridges brother. |
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| mo_flixx |
| Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 9:23 am |
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Joined: 30 May 2004
Posts: 12533
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Joe Vitus wrote: You know who could have played it better? Jack Nicholson. Not only would it have been better for him than the lame comedies he usually does, but he would have been satiric. He would have played up how ridiculous it was, but that he wasn't exactly complaining.
There is at least one huge problem with Costner in this movie, setting aside the narcissism critique which I'll agree is a personal reaction on my part. He's far too much a typical leading man.
SPOILERS
But Benjamin in The Graduate is not typical. He's atypical. Radically so, which is why the movie resonated with people. He wasn't traditionally good looking and he didn't fit in, both of which Costnar obviously is/does. Now, if the movie played with the idea that The Graduate was only loosely based on real life, maybe okay. Dull, but okay. But the way the deceased mother is referenced, and the way Shirely MacLaine is got up, indicates the book barely altered a detail.
That's another problem. How could a college buddy not only get all those details right about people he never met, but how could filmmakers even further removed strike so close to home?
At any rate, there is no way on this earth Benjamin could grow up into the man Kevin Costnar is, with traditional Hollwood good looks, charm and magnetism, easy-going and carefree. Do any of these words fit the young man in The Graduate? Hardly. Costnar is the closest thing we have to a Gary Cooper. Benjamin was closer to Woody Allen. It's like saying Play It Again Sam is based on a real person, who thirty years later became Tom Selleck.
Jack Nicholson would have been too old for the part.
And if you think the character really needed to look and act like Benjamin (which I don't), then Dustin Hoffman should have played the part - but he's too old, too! |
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| jeremy |
| Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 9:53 am |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 6794
Location: Derby, England and Hamilton, New Zealand (yes they are about 12,000 miles apart)
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| Plenty of actors could have played the role, but you need to drop half a generation: Robert Downey jr; Rob Lowe; Johhny Depp... |
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I am angry, I am ill, and I'm as ugly as sin.
My irritability keeps me alive and kicking.
I know the meaning of life, it doesn't help me a bit.
I know beauty and I know a good thing when I see it. |
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| mo_flixx |
| Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 10:02 am |
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Joined: 30 May 2004
Posts: 12533
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jeremy wrote: Plenty of actors could have played the role, but you need to drop half a generation: Robert Downey jr; Rob Lowe; Johhny Depp...
But then the movie couldn't have used Jennifer Aniston who is just a few years younger than the actors listed above. This would have turned her character into someone in their late teens or early twenties - and completely changed the story of "Rumor."
The plot involves an _older_ sister coming home for _younger_ sis' wedding. Older sis is successful and established - in other words, the time has come for her to settle down. |
Last edited by mo_flixx on Tue May 16, 2006 10:37 am; edited 1 time in total |
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| jeremy |
| Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 10:19 am |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 6794
Location: Derby, England and Hamilton, New Zealand (yes they are about 12,000 miles apart)
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| Maybe, though they are all at least four years older than Jennifer Aniston. |
_________________
I am angry, I am ill, and I'm as ugly as sin.
My irritability keeps me alive and kicking.
I know the meaning of life, it doesn't help me a bit.
I know beauty and I know a good thing when I see it. |
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| mo_flixx |
| Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 10:36 am |
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Joined: 30 May 2004
Posts: 12533
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jeremy wrote: Maybe, though they are all at least four years older than Jennifer Aniston.
But this actor was supposed to be someone who could have FATHERED Jennifer Aniston's character.
Are you mathematically-challenged or do you just have a very strange sense of humor?
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