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Trish
Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 2:35 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 2438 Location: Massachusetts
Joe Vitus wrote:
Trish,

The movies of this decade are distinct for both their out-of-the-mainstream qualities and the ironic humor that pervades them. This was the era of the slacker, and Gen X, of MAs working at McDonalds, and very well educated people working lousy jobs and being told they were idiots because the register counted the change for them. There was a strong appetite for verbal comedy and rapid wit, soaked in a lighter-or-darker nihilism; a sensibility best summed up as sardonic. There was also a strong appetite for violence, but an ironic violence: one that knew the scenarios were unreal, and did not wish them to be real, but entered into them wholeheartedly with all the enthusiasm of making it to the top level of a Playstation game. And while movie homages are hardly new to this decade, there was a greater sense of playing with the audience's awareness of its pop culture past than had been seen since the French New Wave.

In short, the 90's are as distinct in tone and perspective as any period in the history of film. You could not watch a movie from that time and fail to recognize it as such.

God, yes, the decade was definable.


Perhaps a comparison with the 80s might be interesting

We could start with specific films that pioneered(or initiated a resurgence) major trends in the decade

(ie. Pulp Fiction, The Crying Game , Scream etc)
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Trish
Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 2:36 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 2438 Location: Massachusetts
I gotta run - But I'll be back tomorrow ..this might end up being a good topic after all
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Earl
Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 8:37 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 09 Jun 2004 Posts: 2621 Location: Houston
jeremy wrote:
Sofia Coppola can't be blamed for what the film wasn't, it never quite matched its ambition, but her performance was so bad that on more than one occassion it yanked me right out of the film. I understand that Winona Ryder was originally lined up to play the part, but I can't remember why she did not go ahead with it. It hardly seems like the type of role, you'd pass on to make Alien IV or Mermaids.


There is a book called "The Godfather Companion" by Peter Biskind. It addresses that issue. Take it for whatever it's worth:

Quote:
Julia Roberts was Coppola's first choice but she was unavailable.. Madonna wanted, tested, and was seriously considered for the role. Ultimately, however, they felt that her age was too much of a problem. There was a list of ten women up for the role, including Roberts, Laura San Giacomo and Trini Alvarado. Eventually it went to Ryder.

A month into shooting, Ryder, who had just arrived, pleaded exhaustion. She had just finished three movies back-to-back, most recently Mermaids for Orion, and was reportedly under pressure from her boyfriend, Johnny Depp, to leave Rome and return to the United States. She was examined by a doctor who, according to sources, concluded that she was having a nervous breakdown and advised that she be sent home. Ryder returned to the United States.

Roberts was still unavailable. San Giacomo and Annabella Sciorra were available and under consideration; but Coppola chose his daughter. The studio as well as some of the cast were skeptical. The role was rewritten to accommodate Sofia, making Mary younger, more innocent, less sexual. Said Eli Wallach, "It had to alter Andy Garcia's work in the movie. As Winona was a sex thing, Sofia was innocent. It just changed a note in the tune."


Perhaps, jeremy, that was much more info than you needed or wanted, but there it is. My belief is that any of the other actresses mentioned would have been better in the part than Sofia.

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Earl
Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 9:20 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 09 Jun 2004 Posts: 2621 Location: Houston
bart wrote:
12 Monkeys had the core logic problem of all time travel films, which is that chaos theory (and really, basic causality) shows clearly how small changes in antecedent conditions can wreak big changes years in the future. A time traveler's mere presence in the past displaces air and insects and plants and dust particles and so on, changes the use of water and food, causes pedestrians to subtly shift their paths and arrive somewhere at slightly different moments and, in the case of a male, have a different one of billions of sperm cells happen to be "in the lead" at a moment of fertilization. Bruce Willis could spend five minutes in the past, and he would never return to the future from whence he came. In fact, his mere presence would insure that he would wink out of existence and be somewhere else with different memories.

So, given that, I usually check my brain at the door of the theater and just enjoy the ride.


Been enjoying this time travel discussion. Ever see a movie from the early-80's called Somewhere In Time starring Christopher Reeve and Jane Seymour? Reeve plays a guy from the 1970's who one day is approached by an old lady who gives him a watch and says, "Come back to me." He travels through time to the 1910's and meets her as a young woman (played by Seymour) and returns the watch to her. She keeps it all those years, grows old into the 1970's and gives it to him, etc, etc. So where/when did the watch originate?

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"I have a suspicion that you are all mad," said Dr. Renard, smiling sociably; "but God forbid that madness should in any way interrupt friendship."
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mo_flixx
Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 10:15 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 30 May 2004 Posts: 12533
Earl wrote:
jeremy wrote:
Sofia Coppola can't be blamed for what the film wasn't, it never quite matched its ambition, but her performance was so bad that on more than one occassion it yanked me right out of the film. I understand that Winona Ryder was originally lined up to play the part, but I can't remember why she did not go ahead with it. It hardly seems like the type of role, you'd pass on to make Alien IV or Mermaids.


There is a book called "The Godfather Companion" by Peter Biskind. It addresses that issue. Take it for whatever it's worth:

Quote:
Julia Roberts was Coppola's first choice but she was unavailable.. Madonna wanted, tested, and was seriously considered for the role. Ultimately, however, they felt that her age was too much of a problem. There was a list of ten women up for the role, including Roberts, Laura San Giacomo and Trini Alvarado. Eventually it went to Ryder.

A month into shooting, Ryder, who had just arrived, pleaded exhaustion. She had just finished three movies back-to-back, most recently Mermaids for Orion, and was reportedly under pressure from her boyfriend, Johnny Depp, to leave Rome and return to the United States. She was examined by a doctor who, according to sources, concluded that she was having a nervous breakdown and advised that she be sent home. Ryder returned to the United States.

Roberts was still unavailable. San Giacomo and Annabella Sciorra were available and under consideration; but Coppola chose his daughter. The studio as well as some of the cast were skeptical. The role was rewritten to accommodate Sofia, making Mary younger, more innocent, less sexual. Said Eli Wallach, "It had to alter Andy Garcia's work in the movie. As Winona was a sex thing, Sofia was innocent. It just changed a note in the tune."


Perhaps, jeremy, that was much more info than you needed or wanted, but there it is. My belief is that any of the other actresses mentioned would have been better in the part than Sofia.


Gotta track this book down. His _Easy Riders, Raging Bulls_ was very good.

Julia Roberts as first choice seems a little odd to me because she is SO un-Italian. I think Annabella Sciorra would have been right on in terms of casting.
Ryder IMO has given some very uneven performances in her career.

More ideas from me -
Daphne Zuniga?? Would have to think about her - wonder if she was the right age at the time.

Jamie Gertz - another person to think about - not sure about her age. She looks very young, even today.

Phoebe Cates?? Another very young looking actress, even today.
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mo_flixx
Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 10:16 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 30 May 2004 Posts: 12533
P.S. Forgot about Sharon Stone in a black wig.

Laughing Laughing
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Joe Vitus
Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 12:09 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston
Earl,

Somewhere in Time. Seen different parts of it many times on cable. Never the whole thing. Yet I have pleasant feelings towards it.

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mo_flixx
Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 12:37 am Reply with quote
Joined: 30 May 2004 Posts: 12533
Re: GODFATHER III casting.
The movie came out in 1990 - and Sofie Coppola was born in 1971.
Just to satisfy my own curiosity, here are the years of birth of the other actresses mentioned:

Daphne Zuniga, b. 1962

Phoebe Cates, b. 1963

Annabella Sciorra, b. 1964

Jamie Gertz, b. 1965

Julia Roberts, b. 1967

Winona Ryder, like Coppola also b. 1971.

[IMO, Zuniga would have been too old. Sciorra, so very Italian, would have been around 25 at the time. Both Cates and Gertz would have been only 1 year of age different -- and both look(ed) much younger than their physical age.]
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mo_flixx
Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 1:49 am Reply with quote
Joined: 30 May 2004 Posts: 12533
I have to give a strong recommendation for the SHOWGIRLS VIP edition WITH the commentary by David Schmader. While Schmader isn't brilliant, his remarks add a lot to the film - fun, gay, and humorous.

I also think WHY NOT A SHOWGIRLS SEQUEL? If they could do a sequel to Verhoeven's "Basic Instinct," why not a sequel to "Showgirls?"

I'm not sure what direction it would take -- Nomi in L.A.? Nomi back in Vegas? By all acc'ts. Elizabeth Berkley actually is a decent actress (I guess).

Well, I guess SHOWGIRLS didn't do well enough at the box office to merit a sequel, but maybe some rich guys in Dubai might be up for it??
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gromit
Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 2:19 am Reply with quote
Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 9016 Location: Shanghai
Or a rich guy in Shanghai.
It'd be my chance to give something back to the country I've been exploiting.

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jeremy
Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 3:11 am Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 6794 Location: Derby, England and Hamilton, New Zealand (yes they are about 12,000 miles apart)
12 Monkeys Spoiler

If I remember rightly, the way 12 Monkeys handled time travel was to make him part of his own history, and thereby unable to change it. This of course asks as many questions as it answers - not least of which is did that mean the scientists' plan to travel back in time and prevent the cataclysm was futile.


Last edited by jeremy on Thu May 25, 2006 9:21 am; edited 1 time in total

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lady wakasa
Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 9:15 am Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 5911 Location: Beyond the Blue Horizon
More 12 Monkeys Spoiler

jeremy wrote:
If I remember rightly, the way 12 Monkeys handled tim travel was to make him part of his own history, and thereby unable to change it.


Bingo!

Quote:
This of course asks as many questions as it answers - not least of which was did that mean the scientists plan to prevent the cataclysm was futile.


Not if they didn't know what was going on (and it's been 10 years, I don't remember everything).

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marantzo
Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 10:42 am Reply with quote
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Well quantum theory seems to solve all the time travel stuff. Infinite possibilities and they all co-exist in different realities. So some may be changed but it doesn't matter because there are a bunch more hanging around in the same spacetime. It's a big stew with the same ingredients but different results.
bart
Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 10:52 am Reply with quote
Joined: 05 Dec 2005 Posts: 2381 Location: Lincoln NE
That's only the Everett interpretation of quantum mechanics that does that, as it allows infinite multiple universes, a new universe paring off from the others with each quantum event that can go either of two ways. In other theories, some based on the Copenhagen interpretation, consciousness does something called "collapsing the wavefunction" and "chooses" a single unified universe that doesn't split up. In newer versions, individual particles can actually "observe" each other, in some kind of abstract mathematical sense that is beyond me.

In any case, you're right that one take on quantum theory does allow a way out of time travel paradoxes, by simply moving you from one return-universe to another each time you diddle around with the past.

Earl, I enjoyed the whole "where'd the watch come from" thing in Somewhere in Time. I think Einstein, among others, did a thought experiment that was similar to that, where you had some object that somehow just came into existence without being manufactured and therefore exposed a paradox of time travel.

Given all that, plus watching the season finale of "Lost," my brain hurts this morning.

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marantzo
Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 11:42 am Reply with quote
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Thanks, bart. I certainly don't claim to have the foggiest understanding of quantum anything, but it's fun to play around with. When it comes down to all the wonderful physics and spiritual theories that have been developed over these many millenia of human existence, they still haven't explained how something can come from nothing, how to understand that things began after they hadn't begun. I get the sneaking feeling that we aren't equipped mentally or any other 'ly' to solve these mysteries, but it too is fun to play around with. Though a portal to madness.

I'm sure someone or many have said this before, but God didn't make us in his image, we made him in ours. Just as we shape the universe and existence through the only lens we have, ourselves.

This is the Thought Games Forum, isn't it?

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