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| yambu |
Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:30 pm |
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Joined: 23 May 2004
Posts: 6441
Location: SF Bay Area
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marantzo wrote: I guess a lot of you have heard Mackenna's (sp?), (I'm not even going to try to spell her first name) recording of the Molly Bloom soliloque.It's magic.. You mean Fionnula Flanagan, in the film James Joyce's Women? I saw it twenty years ago, and didn't like it. The script is a bastardized version. Bad enough to edit words, but to add them?? Besides, the soliloquy is of Molly masturbating, and it just doesn't translate to the screen. The images (not that they're graphic) detract from the words. |
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| billyweeds |
Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:06 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 20618
Location: New York City
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| I think he probably means Siobhan McKenna. Where she played Molly I don't know. Flanagan played the role in the movie of Ulysses, too. |
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| mo_flixx |
Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:09 pm |
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Joined: 30 May 2004
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Rod wrote: I just watched the original The Thomas Crown Affair. Starts off well, with a smattering of mod style, but finishes up devoid of interesting plot and degenerates into a string of high-class '60s ads for dune buggies, designer sweaters, and various tourist boards.
I watched it recently too. This was a case where the film went TOO period - so that Dunaway's makeup and clothes are much too extreme...hence look ridiculous and dated today. I suspect this happened because Dunaway wanted a "high style" look - big mistake in retrospect.
NOT like BLOW UP which on the other hand is a timeless representation of the same period. |
Last edited by mo_flixx on Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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| billyweeds |
Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:09 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 20618
Location: New York City
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Joe Vitus wrote: It's a novel, with a poem as the center piece. He's playing with form. It looks like an annotated poem, but it's actually a novel. I'm not crazy about it, but then I've never cared for Nabokov (great stylist; but I think it's all on the surface).
Of course it (Pale Fire) is a novel, but told in the most ingenious of ways. I think it's also much more than style and surface. IMO it's one of the most deeply profound books I've ever read, a profundity only enhanced by the fact that it's a truly enjoyable read. |
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| mo_flixx |
Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:10 pm |
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Joined: 30 May 2004
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yambu wrote: marantzo wrote: I guess a lot of you have heard Mackenna's (sp?), (I'm not even going to try to spell her first name) recording of the Molly Bloom soliloque.It's magic.. You mean Fionnula Flanagan, in the film James Joyce's Women? I saw it twenty years ago, and didn't like it. The script is a bastardized version. Bad enough to edit words, but to add them?? Besides, the soliloquy is of Molly masturbating, and it just doesn't translate to the screen. The images (not that they're graphic) detract from the words.
I think Joe Levine produced a whole series of literary works on film during this period - he got a lot of press about this at the time. |
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| Joe Vitus |
Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:18 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 14498
Location: Houston
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billyweeds wrote: Joe Vitus wrote: It's a novel, with a poem as the center piece. He's playing with form. It looks like an annotated poem, but it's actually a novel. I'm not crazy about it, but then I've never cared for Nabokov (great stylist; but I think it's all on the surface).
Of course it ( Pale Fire) is a novel, but told in the most ingenious of ways. I think it's also much more than style and surface. IMO it's one of the most deeply profound books I've ever read, a profundity only enhanced by the fact that it's a truly enjoyable read.
Anywhere you would like to elaborate on this, I would like to read it. Most likely in Books? |
_________________ You've got a great brain. You should keep it in your head.
-Topher |
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| billyweeds |
Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:57 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 20618
Location: New York City
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Joe Vitus wrote: billyweeds wrote: Joe Vitus wrote: It's a novel, with a poem as the center piece. He's playing with form. It looks like an annotated poem, but it's actually a novel. I'm not crazy about it, but then I've never cared for Nabokov (great stylist; but I think it's all on the surface).
Of course it ( Pale Fire) is a novel, but told in the most ingenious of ways. I think it's also much more than style and surface. IMO it's one of the most deeply profound books I've ever read, a profundity only enhanced by the fact that it's a truly enjoyable read.
Anywhere you would like to elaborate on this, I would like to read it. Most likely in Books?
Love to, but not tonight. |
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| Joe Vitus |
Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 11:24 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 14498
Location: Houston
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| Anytime. Would just like to hear your take. |
_________________ You've got a great brain. You should keep it in your head.
-Topher |
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| tirebiter |
Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:29 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 4011
Location: not far away
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| I saw Fionnula Flanagan do "James Joyce's Women" almost 30 years ago at the Guthrie. Brilliant performance. |
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| Joe Vitus |
Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:36 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: Houston
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| Funny, I had thought you were referring to James Joyce's Women, but I only know the movie, didn't know it had been a theater piece. When I looked for her name on IMDB and didn't find it, I just figured I was wrong. |
_________________ You've got a great brain. You should keep it in your head.
-Topher |
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| gromit |
Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:48 am |
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 9016
Location: Shanghai
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I've never seen a film based on Joyce. Sounds diifficult to get
language and inventiveness into a visual medium such as film.
Pale Fire would be a bitch, if not impossible, to make a good film of.
In other news, Criterion will be releasing ACE IN THE HOLE (aka The Big Carnival) on Dvd this July. It's also showing on TCM in a few days (March 17th I believe). Looking forward to this. Not sure why it's been so neglected on video. |
_________________ Killing your enemies, if it's done badly, increases their number. |
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| whiskeypriest |
Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:50 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 6916
Location: "It's a Dry Heat."
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billyweeds wrote: Joe Vitus wrote: It's a novel, with a poem as the center piece. He's playing with form. It looks like an annotated poem, but it's actually a novel. I'm not crazy about it, but then I've never cared for Nabokov (great stylist; but I think it's all on the surface).
Of course it ( Pale Fire) is a novel, but told in the most ingenious of ways. I think it's also much more than style and surface. IMO it's one of the most deeply profound books I've ever read, a profundity only enhanced by the fact that it's a truly enjoyable read. Pale Fire is more fun than any other book I've ever read. Though I recognize my conception of fun is not the same as everyone's.
I know a lot of people who feel the way joe does; that Nabokov's style is all surface, no depth. I always have the same response: reread. Always reread. |
_________________ I ask you, Velvel, as a rational man, which of us is possessed? |
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| whiskeypriest |
Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:52 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 6916
Location: "It's a Dry Heat."
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gromit wrote: I've never seen a film based on Joyce. Sounds diifficult to get
language and inventiveness into a visual medium such as film.
Pale Fire would be a bitch, if not impossible, to make a good film of.
In other news, Criterion will be releasing ACE IN THE HOLE (aka The Big Carnival) on Dvd this July. It's also showing on TCM in a few days (March 17th I believe). Looking forward to this. Not sure why it's been so neglected on video. I think the very act of filming Pale Fire would require you to make certain choices that would immediately detract from the novel's brilliantly playful complexity.
I already have a dvd of Ace in the Hole, you know. But I'd love to get see what Criterion does with it. |
_________________ I ask you, Velvel, as a rational man, which of us is possessed? |
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| marantzo |
Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:53 am |
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billyweeds wrote: I think he probably means Siobhan McKenna. Where she played Molly I don't know. Flanagan played the role in the movie of Ulysses, too.
Billy, yes that's who I was talking about. And I don't think she played Molly, I believe that it was just a recording she made of the soliloquy. (thanks for the correct spelling yambu.)
I first became aware of Pale Fire when I was living in Paris and ended up at a cafe around 2 AM. After lying in bed, stoned and having a mental battle between going to sleep, (I was sleepy) or getting up and getting dressed and going for something to eat, (I was starved, grass will do that). Eating won. I think it was the NYT Sunday Book Reviews that I took with me to read. At the cafe I read Mary McCarthy's review of Pale Fire. She felt the same way about it that you do Billy. |
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| billyweeds |
Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 10:29 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 20618
Location: New York City
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marantzo wrote: billyweeds wrote: I think he probably means Siobhan McKenna. Where she played Molly I don't know. Flanagan played the role in the movie of Ulysses, too.
Billy, yes that's who I was talking about. And I don't think she played Molly, I believe that it was just a recording she made of the soliloquy. (thanks for the correct spelling yambu.)
I first became aware of Pale Fire when I was living in Paris and ended up at a cafe around 2 AM. After lying in bed, stoned and having a mental battle between going to sleep, (I was sleepy) or getting up and getting dressed and going for something to eat, (I was starved, grass will do that). Eating won. I think it was the NYT Sunday Book Reviews that I took with me to read. At the cafe I read Mary McCarthy's review of Pale Fire. She felt the same way about it that you do Billy.
I think it's a shame that Nabokov is most famous for Lolita, which is an excellent book but not in the same galaxy as Pale Fire. |
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