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inlareviewer
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:27 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 05 Jul 2004 Posts: 1949 Location: Lawrence, KS
Doubt transpires in 1964. Father Flynn notes the Kennedy assassination the previous year and its effect on Catholic parishoners in one of his sermons.

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Syd
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:30 pm Reply with quote
Site Admin Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 12929 Location: Norman, Oklahoma
inlareviewer wrote:
Doubt transpires in 1964. Father Flynn notes the Kennedy assassination the previous year and its effect on Catholic parishoners in one of his sermons.


So Sister Aloysius is actually two popes behind the times.

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inlareviewer
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:34 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 05 Jul 2004 Posts: 1949 Location: Lawrence, KS
Syd wrote:
inlareviewer wrote:
Doubt transpires in 1964. Father Flynn notes the Kennedy assassination the previous year and its effect on Catholic parishoners in one of his sermons.


So Sister Aloysius is actually two popes behind the times.
To put it mildly.

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Joe Vitus
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:39 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston
inlareviewer wrote:
Doubt transpires in 1964. Father Flynn notes the Kennedy assassination the previous year and its effect on Catholic parishoners in one of his sermons.


See my post above.

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Ghulam
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:10 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 4742 Location: Upstate NY
Doubt may have recreated the authentic atmosphere of a Catholic school, but the story really is about pettiness even though it abuts on serious subjects. It seems to be contrived. Performances however are excellent.

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yambu
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:17 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 23 May 2004 Posts: 6441 Location: SF Bay Area
Syd wrote:
inlareviewer wrote:
Doubt transpires in 1964. Father Flynn notes the Kennedy assassination the previous year and its effect on Catholic parishoners in one of his sermons.


So Sister Aloysius is actually two popes behind the times.
When she put up that framed photo of Pius XII, who died in '58, she said it didn't matter which Pope it was, it was now there only so Sr. James would be able to watch her kids through its reflection.

Notice the Latin Mass was still in effect. That didn't change until '65, after Vatican II, Part IV.
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yambu
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:29 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 23 May 2004 Posts: 6441 Location: SF Bay Area
Ghulam wrote:
Doubt may have recreated the authentic atmosphere of a Catholic school, but the story really is about pettiness even though it abuts on serious subjects. It seems to be contrived.....
How so? While priestly pedophilia would not be outed for another thirty years, we can assume it was nonetheless rampant, though there was no set procedure on how to deal with an accusation of it. This put the onus squarely on Sr. Aloysius, which sets up this effective drama.
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inlareviewer
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:41 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 05 Jul 2004 Posts: 1949 Location: Lawrence, KS
Per author Shanley, the inspiration for Doubt was his observation of how automatically Congress and Americans fell into lockstep with the push to invade Iraq. As such, it seems largely about the pitfalls of making hard distinctions about matters better served by critical probity and sober questions, the pro-active uses of skepticism, the dangers of drawing conclusions based on instinctive certitude without clear evidence, the inevitability of change and what happens when those lines blur and butt up against each other.

http://www.cinematical.com/2008/12/09/interview-writer-director-john-patrick-shanley-of-doubt/

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=98142901

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Marj
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:22 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 10497 Location: Manhattan
yambu wrote:
Ghulam wrote:
Doubt may have recreated the authentic atmosphere of a Catholic school, but the story really is about pettiness even though it abuts on serious subjects. It seems to be contrived.....
How so? While priestly pedophilia would not be outed for another thirty years, we can assume it was nonetheless rampant, though there was no set procedure on how to deal with an accusation of it. This put the onus squarely on Sr. Aloysius, which sets up this effective drama.


Yam, is exactly right. And the fact that there were none of the procedures that we've come so familiar with is why it had to be set decades ago.

But if you see this film for what it's really about, you'll see it's about Spoiler: power, lack of certainty and clearly, doubt. The mystery of did he or didn't he is only the tipping point for all of this. End Spoiler. Indeed, watching closely, you'll see that Sister Aloysius's cross slowly becomes smaller and smaller as the film progresses.
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chillywilly
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:02 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 8251 Location: Salt Lake City
mo_flixx wrote:
chillywilly wrote:
Thanks, Mo. I will go check out that link to the details behind the story. It should shed more light for myself on why NONE of the short story is contained in the movie.


chilly -
The link is the short story itself. It doesn't take long to read. There is no New Orleans (Button hails from Baltimore), no foster mother, no Daisy (Benj. does have a wife), no Tilda (no voyage to Russia at all), and Benj. was born in 1860 and has a bit of an adventure in the Spanish-American War. There is also all the Ivy League business - the Harvard/Yale rivalry which seems very Fitzgerald to me.

Now what story are _you_ talking about?

[The only similarity between Fitzgerald's story and the movie is the idea of a person aging backwards.]

P.S. On the imdb.com , Fitzgerald's name only appears in "Trivia," not on the actual credits.

P.P.S. IMO the biggest reason to throw out the Fitzgerald story was that the movie would not be able to come up to the present day. Baltimore was the orig. choice for the location, but Louisiana gave a tax credit...also perhaps Pitt _wanted_ to do something to help the hurricane-ravaged state.

I understand your point. And your post with the link was to the original story. I see that now.

I need to correct my mini review post and retract the "adapted screenplay" accolade. According to some sources, they say the story was "loosely based" on the Fitzgerald short story. I'm ok with "loosely", considering how almost none of the story details were used.

Thanks for your research on this.

I still liked the movie, regardless of it's claims or lack thereof.

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chillywilly
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:08 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 8251 Location: Salt Lake City
billyweeds wrote:
If anyone had told me a year ago that I would ever be actively rooting for and over the moon about a performance by Colin Farrell I would have laughed in their face. Farrell was one of my least favorite actors on the planet. But he turned me around with his great acting in In Bruges and has made me once again aware of the power of sobriety. Not by accident did he allude last night to the fact he no longer does cocaine--nor booze nor any other substance by fairly common knowledge. Farrell clearly had the talent but was squandering it. Long may you wave, sir, cleanly and soberly!

Guess I need to add to the list of movies I need to see here soon.

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Chilly
"If you should die before me / Ask if you could bring a friend"
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chillywilly
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:10 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 8251 Location: Salt Lake City
billyweeds wrote:
jeremy wrote:
I've lost track; is this the right forum for the SJH thread.


What does SJH stand for--Society of Jesuits Hoffman?

Sarah Jessica Hoffman?

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Chilly
"If you should die before me / Ask if you could bring a friend"
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mo_flixx
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:45 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 30 May 2004 Posts: 12533
Befade wrote:
Yambu.......You reign as resident effete reader. I loved In the Garden. Have you read The Reader or Revolutionary Road? I'm sure you haven't read Marley & Me.


I am reading <Marley et moi> in French.
Very Happy


Last edited by mo_flixx on Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ghulam
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:56 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 4742 Location: Upstate NY
yambu wrote:
Ghulam wrote:
Doubt may have recreated the authentic atmosphere of a Catholic school, but the story really is about pettiness even though it abuts on serious subjects. It seems to be contrived.....
How so? While priestly pedophilia would not be outed for another thirty years, we can assume it was nonetheless rampant, though there was no set procedure on how to deal with an accusation of it. This put the onus squarely on Sr. Aloysius, which sets up this effective drama.


Setting a paranoid nun to pursue a flimsy accusation and bringing about the result that she did smacks of MacCarthyism.

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whiskeypriest
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:22 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 6916 Location: "It's a Dry Heat."
chillywilly wrote:
billyweeds wrote:
If anyone had told me a year ago that I would ever be actively rooting for and over the moon about a performance by Colin Farrell I would have laughed in their face. Farrell was one of my least favorite actors on the planet. But he turned me around with his great acting in In Bruges and has made me once again aware of the power of sobriety. Not by accident did he allude last night to the fact he no longer does cocaine--nor booze nor any other substance by fairly common knowledge. Farrell clearly had the talent but was squandering it. Long may you wave, sir, cleanly and soberly!

Guess I need to add to the list of movies I need to see here soon.
Oh, see it, see it. And be sure to watch the DVD extra "Fooking Bruges" - though perhaps not with warpedgirl17.

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